Interview of Winnifer Carlton, [4/15/09]

 

Leanda Daniels comes into the room with Winnifer and seats her in a chair.

 

PAGE

Question

What they transcribe

Actual Quotation from Winnifer, without

“inaudibles”

3 of 22

You visit your mom? Why are you making

such a long face?

I haven’t seen her

in a while and I (inaudible)

I haven’t seen her in a while and I want to see her more.

I only see her on the weekend.

3 of 22

Oh. Who lives at mom’s?

(inaudible)

My dog Leah.

3 of 22

Who?

My dog (inaudible)

My dog Leah.

PAGES 4, 5 and 6 are missing

These pages consist of Winnifer’s answer to the question of who lives at dad’s house, and whether others spend the night or baby-sit for her, and she spontaneously says she visits her mom and starts to talk in glowing terms about her visitation to her mom’s house.

All omitted.

She says she visits her mom at her mom’s house. She says she’s part Jewish and part Christian, but actually more Jewish because she “comes from my mom” and her mom is the Jewish part. She then asks Leanda if she has heard of “shabbos.”   Leanda gives no response.   Winnifer launches into a description of shabbos at her mom’s house. You’re not allowed to cook or do creative things like crafts, or turn on machines that give light or make noise, but you can play. Her mom lights candles. She looks for shabbos before the sun goes down. Then shabbos starts. She plays stuff, legos, etc. Then there’s dinner. Her favorite is barbecued chicken or salmon. Her mom makes that for her; her dad never does. Her father doesn’t give her salmon because he can’t get it. At her mom’s house she has lots of fun and plays with lots of things. At her dad’s house, mostly just watches TV.   Dad is usually talking with grandma or Uncle Kelly or cooking or just doing other stuff.

Missing pages

Leanda interrupts Winnifer’s monologue about mom’s house and how she misses it, and directs attention to something she “needs help” with – body parts.

Missing

Leanda tapes up the picture of the boy and girl and asks for identification of body parts.   Winnifer dutifully answers, hair, eyes, shoulders. Then transcript resumes.

Resumes on page 7 of 22

…continuation of identification of body parts of girl

Boobies.

No change.

8 of 22

Okay what’s this?

(inaudible)

Back hair

9 of 22

Do you ever get hugs?   Yeah?

Usually from my mom.

No change.

“ “

Usually from your mom?

(inaudible)

That’s why I love her so much!

9 of 22

And on your back?   Yeah, so you like to get hugs?   How about, do you ever get kisses?

Usually from my mom and my dad (inaudible)

Usually from my mom and my dad almost never.

11 of 22

Okay. And you said that doesn’t happen too much. So what happens when you do get in trouble then?

(inaudible) and I always apologize.

I feel very bad for what I did and I always apologize.

12 of 22

Does she [Isabella] live with daddy or is she just a friend?

(inaudible)

Just a friend.

13 of 22

How old is Isabella?

(inaudible) she pushed me in the pool.

And once she pushed me in the pool.

“ “

Hm.

And I (inaudible)

And I could have cut my lip open!

“ “

She’s seven. OK.

Nothing is written.

Winnifer is crying a little bit and it is not noted in the transcript.

“ “

She’s seven. Okay.

Nothing is written.

Winnifer interjects:   “I just don’t like her!”

“ “

Do you have to play with her?

No. (inaudible) and not do it again.

No. Sometimes I ask my dad not knowing she was going to be mean and, but I didn’t KNOW she was going to be mean and not do it AGAIN, but every TIME I…

“ “

Um hm (positive).

(inaudible) give her another chance and (inaudible) thinking I’m not going to…

(prior outburst from answer above this one is the part this is transcribed as “inaudible” and then the continuation is):

[from “every time I…”]

Give her another chance and she keeps on being mean so I’m thinking I’m not going to--

“ “

Oh. [she has interrupted]

(inaudible)

--go there any more.

14 of 22

What if they did touch you? What would you do?

I would go tell my mom and she would probably (inaudible) or my dad.

I would go tell my mom and she would probably make them go home, or my dad.

“ “

Okay.

I have a friend (inaudible). She’s my best friend. She would never do anything like that.

I have a friend Mimi at my mom’s. She’s my best friend. She would never do anything like that. I don’t know her to.

“ “

It usually itches?   Okay. So what do you do to help it so it doesn’t itch?

Well my, my mom (inaudible) to my dad’s but he threw it away and it helps me stop itching it.

Well my, my mom sends this stuff to my dad’s but he threw it away and it helps me stop itching it.

15 of 22

Your mom does it?   What does that feel like when mom does that?

It feels good. It’s (inaudible) ticklish in there.

It feels good. It’s ticklish and I like it being ticklish in there.

“ “

Does mommy ever say anything when she’s putting it on?

(inaudible)

I’m just thinking…no.

“ “

How often does mommy put the desitin on you?

Well, well it’s like how long it’s red (inaudible) puts it on.

Well, if it’s red, well if I tell her it was red then she (inaudible) puts it on.

“ “

…how many times do you think mommy puts the Desitin cream stuff on you?

Probably one day (inaudible) time. When I’m going back to my dad she usually puts it on.

Probably one day at night time. When I’m going back to my dad she usually puts it on.

16 of 22

Um hm (positive)

So if it starts getting (inaudible) and at my dad’s I will still have it on and it wouldn’t stop but it would­n’t get as bad.

So if it starts getting red right there, or red at my dad’s I will still have it on and it wouldn’t stop but it wouldn’t get as bad.

16 of 22

They transcribe the question wrong. They say “Now does daddy ever put the Desitin on you?” The question was: “Now has daddy ever put the Desitin on you?”

   

“ “

Okay. So have you gotten in trouble at school or anything for, for touching yourself or while you’re in class doing things like that, like itching or anything?

Not really (inaudible) go wash your hands.

Not really. Miss Metcalf just says…says wash your hands.

“ “

Ms. Metcalf tells you to go wash your hands? Okay.

(inaudible)

At school.

“ “

So what are you usually doing when she tells you to go wash your hands?

(inaudible)

I go wash them up.   Usually doing my work.

“ “

Cause you’re itching?

(inaudible)

She says wash it.

17 of 22

Um hm (positive)

But if it’s (inaudible) it feels bad.

But if it’s red at that time it feels bad.

“ “

Cause I just have to check and make sure I asked all the questions I was supposed to.

Nothing is transcribed about Winnie’s behavior or utterances.

Winnie starts restlessly climbing on the chair and faces Leanda, whose back is turned towards her.   Winnie says:

“But I really want to go with my mommy!”

19 of 22

Leanda tells Winnie that she has heard that Winnie went to school without underwear one day, and Leanda wants to know what happened.

Well all my pairs of underwear was in the (inaudible). There wasn’t no washer or no dryer and there was nothing else to put on to cover it.

Well all my pairs of underwear was in the [climb, climb] was in the washer or the dryer and there was nothing else to put on to cover it.

“ “

Hm. [sounds disbelieving]

I don’t remember. I can’t. I couldn’t tell you.

I don’t remember. I can’t…I couldn’t tell you.

“ “

You don’t remember?   Did you have them on and then take them off?

Um um (negative)

I…Um um (negative)

“ “

They usually bother you?   Okay.

They get stuck in my butt and it doesn’t feel (inaudible).

They get stuck in my…butt and it doesn’t feel good, nice.

“ “

Okay. [still sounds disbelieving]

And I don’t know.

And I don’t now, and…

“ “

And that’s why I’m asking, cause I wanna--

Well I had chicken pox and this is very, very odd but it started in my pee-pee.

Well I had chicken pox and this is very, very odd but it spreaded in my pee-pee [gestures].

20 of 22

You still feel tiny bumps in there?

Tiny, tiny.

Tiny, tiny. Like you almost wanna go—away in two, one days.

“ “

When your mom put the cream on you does she look at your pee-pee or anything?

Um um (negative)

No change.

“ “

Cont’d…

No? [sounds disbelieving]

I’m sure she checks to see if it’s really red.

Well, sure! She checks to see if it’s really red!

“ “

Have you ever seen anybody else’s though?

I try not to look but I usually turn around and (inaudible). I turn around (inaudible) the same way and…

I try not to look but I usually turn around and every way I turn around, it all turns the same way, and…

21 of 22

do you [go to the bath­room] all by yourself or do you need help?

(inaudible)

All by myself.

20 of 22

Oh so with your hair?   Yeah.

And putting it all over my hair. I can rub it.

And putting it – just putting it all over my hair. I can rub it.

“ “

Do you have any questions for me?...What?

Um what are your jobs?

Um, what is your job?

21 of 22

Um hm (positive)

But we saw her that I told you about and are very good friends (inaudible)

But we saw her that I told you about and we are very good friends. We know each other since we were babies.

“ “

Um hm (positive)

I mean, we’ve known each other since we were babies. Bella, we’ve known each other probably since we were 3.

I mean, we’ve known each other since we were babies. Bella, we’ve know each other probably since we were three. [makes the “rasp­berries” sound with her lips, indicating disdain or dislike]

“ “

Let me make a phone call just to make sure I covered everything okay?

(inaudible)

I just KNOW we’re gonna get to my Aunt Molly’s…

“ “

[they have not transcribed a question but, after Leanda speaks on the phone she says absent-mindedly to Winnie: “Oh? What are you doin’ there?”]

I have my cousin Jacob. Well Jacob (inaudible)

Here is a whole discussion that has been transcribed as “inaudible” but it is as follows (and Winnifer appeared to want to speak about it more, but wasn’t given the chance):  

They have my cousins, I have my cousin Jacob -- Um — oh, well Jacob and (inaudible) and Carson, so that’s

“ “

So that’s (inaudible) your cousin?

Yeah. They’re all boys. (inaudible) because Jacob (inaudible)

Yeah. They’re ALL BOYS! But Carson, I probably like the most, because Jacob – he fiddles with HIS pee-pee too!

“ “

He fiddles with his pee-pee too?

Penis.

No change.

22 of 22

Seven.

(inaudible)

Same age as Bella.

“ “

You wanna go back out (leading Winnifer out of the interview while Winnifer is still trying to tell her about the sex games at aunt’s house with the cousins who are all boys.

Nothing transcribed.

Mm-hmm. Maybe I can tell them…game…by now. [It sounds like Winnifer is trying to make a disclosure about something uncomfort­able and of sexual context in “games” at the aunt’s house involving Jacob whom she doesn’t like as much as Carson, but none of this is very audible because Leanda led her away from the recording devices as she spoke.]

 

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